Speakers hypothesize but can’t agree on gun legislation

Kelcy Dolan
Posted 6/25/15

The Senate Judiciary Committee listened to three hours of hypotheticals from activists, other senators, officers and parents on Tuesday afternoon’s hearing on the “No Guns in Schools” …

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Speakers hypothesize but can’t agree on gun legislation

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The Senate Judiciary Committee listened to three hours of hypotheticals from activists, other senators, officers and parents on Tuesday afternoon’s hearing on the “No Guns in Schools” legislation.

The legislation, supported by the Rhode Island Coalition Against Gun Violence (RICAGV) and sponsored by Senator Harold Metts (D-District 6), would restrict licensed concealed carry permit holders, other than off-duty and retired police officers, from bringing firearms onto school property.

During the hearing speakers from both sides questioned and hypothesized what would happen should a shooter enter a school and whether or not having a permit holder on the premises would increase or decrease the lethality of said situation.

Gale Hogan from Cranston said that our society “lacks a respect” for human life and as long as it remains such, “laws fail us every day.”

She believes that the possibility someone could have a gun on their person is what makes “maniacs” second-guess entering a school in the first place.

Quickly, the conversation turned morbid bringing up both the recent mass shooting in Charleston’s historic Emanuel African Methodist Church, where nine people lost their lives, and the Sandy Hook Massacre.

Senator Frank Lombardi (D-District 26), who questioned the bill several times in the hearing, wondered if someone had been armed, would the tragedies have claimed fewer victims.

“I’d rather have someone do something than everyone do nothing,” he said.

Senator Stephen Archambault (D-District 22), who also questioned many of the testimonials, said, “If some nut comes into a school, at least there is someone that could protect our kids on the premises.”

Due to his 35 years on the police force, and his position with the RICAGV, retired East Providence Police Chief Joseph Taveras said he had a “unique perspective” to offer the committee.

He warned that although school shootings do happen, “any time you introduce a gun into an environment there is a potential for a discharge, accidental or otherwise.”

He said that guns can be mishandled, or can be improperly secured and get into the hands of a student, and especially in an emergency “well-intentioned people can miss their mark.”

Archambault argued that licensed permit carriers have to have training to receive their permit and are law-abiding citizens.

“I just don’t follow the logic that only law enforcement officers have the required skill set, capabilities and courage to defend our children against a lunatic,” he said.

As both Taveras and Corporal Mark Gilson, from the State Police, testified, police officers receive a wide range of training in firearms that make them best suited to protect students in a high stress and hostile environment.

Gilson explained that in their initial training, officers can log over 100 hours of training in all weather conditions, with moving targets, while stress is put on the body.

He also had a signed letter from Colonel Steven O’Donnell in support of the legislation as it “allows for the safest environment.”

Taveras said permit holders do go through training, but that training is with a stable piece of paper in a controlled setting.

“Well the perp is never just a piece of paper, it’s a violent individual,” Taveras said. “They don’t have the decision making skills of when to and when not to draw and they have no clue what I do after 35 years of service.”

He urged senators to think of their children and grandchildren and know that a gun free zone is the safest place for students to learn.

Jerry Belair, president of the RICAGV, in an interview Wednesday, said that besides the point of permit holders realistically having very little training, “we just don’t know who these people are. The teachers and administrators don’t know why they got the permit or what they plan on doing with it. Why should they need it at a school?”

Marty Cooper, the community relations director for the Jewish Alliance of Greater Rhode Island, noted that everyone in the room had to go through a checkpoint before entering the state house and even those with a concealed carry permit and police officers have to disarm themselves so that the senators and visitors can feel secure.

“Shouldn’t our kids and teachers feel just as protected in their schools, like we feel right now?”

Frank Saccoccio, from the Rhode Island Second Amendment Coalition, was very heated during his testimony arguing that this bill does “almost nothing” other than to “criminalize” permit holders.

He noted that only around 3,700 people in the state have permits and that number falls once you take away exempt off duty and retired officers.

He said he couldn’t see a school being any safer because of this legislation.

While everyone thought it was a possibility of a gun accidentally discharging in a school, or a permit holder misfiring during an emergency, what about a licensed permit holder “shoots the shooter and no one dies. Isn’t that a possibility too?”

He said he “would bet” that the parents of Sandy Hook would have liked someone with a gun on the premises, which was badly received.

Sponsor of the legislation Senator Metts said, “You can make your point, but you will not do so on the backs of the children of Sandy Hook.”

In response, Julia Wyman, a mother and member of the RICAGV, referenced Nicole Hockley’s Washington Post article published only that morning.

Hockely’s son Dylan was one of the first graders lost at Sandy Hook.

Although she did not address anything in terms of the legislation in question, she did address that access and availability of guns are a very real issue when it comes to violence.

She did not call for more guns for protection, but rather as a country we stop ignoring the issues of mental health and gun violence.

“How much longer are we going to incorrectly believe that we cannot do anything about gun violence,” she wrote. “Easy access to a firearm leads to a tragic loss.”

Wyman argued that having permit holders on school premises only increases that accessibility.

She said Hockley had lived through the very events senators and speakers could only hypothesize.

Similarly, early on in the testimonials, another RICAGV member, Nan Heroux, presented the Judiciary Committee with a binder full of petitions along with 23 resolutions from public school systems to see favorable action on the legislation.

Timothy Duffy, executive director of the Rhode Island Association of School Committees, said it was “common sense” to move forward on the bill.

“We live in a different world,” Lombardi argued, “and this is not a black and white issue; there is a lot of gray.”

Belair would argue it is common sense and that the real risk is a gun being misused, misplaced or accidentally discharging in a school setting, not that in the possible case of a mass shooting situation there may not be another gun holder.

He said in an event like that there are safer ways to have a perpetrator subdued instead of doubling the risk by having a permit holder who could cause more damage.

Although there was agreement that the safety of Rhode Island’s children is most important, the two sides couldn’t agree on what would keep them safe and the legislation was held for further study.

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  • davebarry109

    Tavares is wrong. The average police officer receives less than 8 hours training a year. Most only qualify once a year (state law) and most cops are just average shots. I know many people who are not cops that are better shots than cops and put in more hours. Yes, there can be an accidental discharge. Ask Tavares how many of them OCCURRED ON HIS POLICE DEPARTMENT by his so call well trained cops.

    Thursday, June 25, 2015 Report this