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Let's look at the pension/401k plan argument.... Reality/Captain/fenceman would have you believe that we are all retiring at 50 and living till 90 collecting 40 years of a pension... Not true. Are there some yes... But a majority retire around 60. When a person retires at 60 or 65 with a 401k plan can they take what ever amount they want when they retire. If that person dies the entire amout can be left to kids or wife or designee... With a pension its a set amount. Yes if I'm married my wife gets a FRACTION of my pension payment. We have had several employees die within months of retiring collecting virtually nothing from their pension. Yes they were not married. To say pension plans are so different from the real world is rediculous. And we get Medicare at 65 just like everyone else. So it's not for life...